IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Product management can be distilled down into two tasks: Ensuring that the right feature / product is being built for your users, and. That being said, please don't think that tons of 400k 20 hour a week tech jobs are just falling out of the sky for CS majors from no name schools. I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. why bother? At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other? As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours. Defining features. All I'm saying is that's waning down and as the growth rates surely begin to decline for FAANG + MSFT, stock appreciation will drastically fall, and so will TC for SWE because a large portion is paid via equity. I am a EM for last four years. I have around 6 years of experience as a PM and have an MBA. Collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build new features or make modifications. Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. Also which career p. In statistics, a confounder (also confounding variable, confounding factor, extraneous determinant or lurking variable) is a variable that influences both the dependent variable and independent variable, causing a spurious association.Confounding is a causal concept, and as such, cannot be described in terms of correlations or associations. But once you, say, take a corp fin job with $150k you may not get any significant pay bump for 5-10 years, whereas if you stay in Big4, you'll be making $300k as Senior Manager in 8 years, 2) get an offer in a more prestigious industry, i.e. Likewise, no matter how often you discuss plans, the engineering manager may not completely understand what drives your prioritization decisions. Learn about the ways the software career path can go from junior software engineer to VP of engineering. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. SWE job at any major tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any banking job. Workday Software development is so taxing. What is an Engineering Management Platform? The first is the strategy component. Debitis adipisci aspernatur porro modi aliquam quia vel. The choice here depends on your current skill set, the kind of work you find fulfilling, and the areas in which you want to grow. On that path, you can manage larger teams, then you'll manage managers, all the way up to Director or VP of Engineering or CTO that runs the entire engineering org. A software engineer is more siloed in their duties. Amazon, Go to company page Widen your scope. Choosing Between Product Management vs Software Engineering. zuhayeer. The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. Would you recommend. Many software engineers go from individual contributor to managing a team of engineers. Uber, Go to company page Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. #pm #product #productmanage, I am currently a Glorified secretary. I tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry Page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait. survivorship/availability/confirmation bias. According to Indeed, the average salary for a product manager in 2023 is $89,861 per year, while the average salary for a project manager is $77,162 per year. Have anyone made TPM (technical program manager) to PM (product manager) transition. Brownie points for your quirkiness !!!! Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. As a new grad, I was lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering. Hopefully, you pick the job thats right for you and have a blast doing it! That's why you come on WSO every other day to post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant lives. So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. Engineers spend much more time heads down building. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. But are there any more business oriented PMs? Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. Product, Go to company page Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. Get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter. Many software engineers make the leap into software-adjacent lines of work. Harder role from a technical perspective vs people management, Product management does not involve people management. Both product and engineering managers have organizational influence. 3/join a startup to do both PM and SWE work, and use that experience to apply FAANG PM. You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. Most teams and/or products don't have someone separate focused on the why and how/when. So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. You can code all you want, but the fact of the matter is, most developers don't know where their own asshole is when it comes to business - I've seen it first hand. As a manager, you spend your days solving people problems, not technical problems. There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? #Long term success. Practice with our team of senior tech coaches. A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. Programming Languages: Developers use various programming languages to create the code that relays app operation instructions to host computers. I have 5 YOE . AlphaSense, Go to company page You have an abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data. Wondering if i should start applying those? A software engineer at DoorDash can make as much as $250,000 in annual salary, according to compensation data compiled by Insider. business area. 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . below post says non-engineering will be cut. Why I Left Google (2019) Follow @debarghya_das. tech lead, 3 backend, 1 design and UX and me as a PM. I don't hav, I have signed PM (product manager) offer with Meta for early next year (Jan '23). wanted to get some guidance. 1. Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. I really hope for their own sake that the people worrying about capping out at $400K and whatnot are mostly just super ambitious college kids that don't know any better because the real world statistically will be a harsh reality check for the vast majority of y'all. IB / PE. Typically youll need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to do things like leadership reviews. Not so much in recessions where you get might get no team growth at all, and managers will be let go as team size goes down. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? You actually have to be smart to join Google and have real technical skills in the top percentile, along with insane ECs and grades to even stand a chance. Earn a bachelor's degree. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. If you had the skills to be both. Howz the pay and work life balance? While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. I'm under the impression that PM < SWE, always, at the same level. #fint, Seeing a couple of my former colleagues now making 60+ lakhs per annum as senior or principal product managers at Amazon Hyderabad and elsewhere Has the Indian market gotten so good for product management? Services to level up your career. Pay is -5% less for PMs than SWEs. They asked for my salary expectations. In other words, an engineers has to be able to operate in a team. Thanks!#pm #pm #productmanager #apple, Hey everyone. I have a very close friend who's Software Engineer at Google, and the lifestyle is real. You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. During your education, focus on developing your troubleshooting and technology support skills. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. I found a PM position at Hertz that could be a great fit. Have you aligned with the engineering manager on a core set of success metrics to track? Interview Prep. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. Seriously? Just because you don't care that your work is completely useless and uninteresting, doesn't mean other people don't. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? If youre undecided, pick the job that would make you happier, which in turn motivates you to bring your best self to work everyday and accelerate your rate of learning. Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. Find out what to include in your cover letter to catch the attention of a CEO. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. Will going into the management route always make more or can experienced engineers still make the same amount or more?Im wondering if it would be better to just try and stick to an engineering role or go into a management role sooner than later. Go to company page Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. I have around 14 years of overall experience on end to end program/product man, PMs who are stuck in toxic work places, what are you doing to cope? Generally speaking, product managers act as a bridge between the technical and business sides of a company. Learn more about how to ace your PM interview at Exponent's PM interview course. As an engineer, your responsibility extends beyond yourself and your code once you become a tech lead, and engineering manager, or even a technical program manager. How was your experience. They are relatively orthogonal skill sets. A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. Glorified schedulers who dont impact product in any way. They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. From entry-level, you can advance to senior level then staff level. Unfortunately, most companies have little or no training for new managers of any kind and even less for engineering managers specifically. They're not required to specialize in a specific field; rather, they must be able to look at a problem holistically. Chaos is usually rooted in misunderstanding. 101 Investment Banking Interview Questions, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 3rd+ Year Analyst, Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Portfolio Manager, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 2nd Year Analyst, Certified Investment Banking Professional - Vice President, Certified Private Equity Professional - Partner, Certified Consulting Professional - 3rd+ Year Associate, Certified Research Professional - 2nd Year Associate, Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat April 1st - Only 15 Seats, Excel Master 4-Hour Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat May 20th - Only 15 Seats. LinkedIn, Go to company page You do not want to work with an engineering manager who exists on an island keeping the details of what their team is building out of view. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with your IB modeling skills, Not at all. Or had led well-known products previously. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. Like all markets, tech is moving towards saturation with every day that passes. SDEs get higher RSUs so they stay longer. Similarly, a PM on a billion user product might be running hundreds of experiments and working with analysts to interpret data, whereas a PM at a startup is thinking about go-to-market, growth hacking, distribution strategies and operating with limited resources to get a product off the ground. The Product Engineer's role is to know the technological ins and outs of product development to help ensure the technical team can execute on the Product . But, due to the toxic culture it gets so draining. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. That doesn't mean micromanaging from . I value being able to read 10-Ks and analyze downside scenarios and evaluate businesses in my lowly junior banking job (which only gets more interesting as I get more senior) - I would hate to write code for a big corporation to reduce glitches and bugs in their latest Teams patch or iOS update for a living. Your job has two parts. Get started with a LinearB free-forever account today! You dedicate most of your time to deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . Is it better? Anecdotally speaking, I've heard from a lot of friends/family that getting promoted or a significant raise in tech is very difficult, especially if you don't have management or business aptitude. 1) get an offer with better immediate compensation, e.g. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). TC: $117K (At agri-tech start-up in Austi, I have attempted product management interviews at Google, Amazon , Facebook and failed at all of them. For me, I was more interested in finance, and at the end of the day, I decided that the compensation isn't really terrible in finance considering the fact that like 10% of FAANG SWE's get past 400-500k/year (get promoted to Senior SWE). Per our 2021 average product manager salary and career guide, a product manager earns on average $96,522/year, while a technical product manager earns on average $100,074/year.. Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . Generally embedded within a development team. 3) If all you got from banking were modelling skills than I feel bad for you, I learned a ton about business and finance in general, and feel very equipped to either a) BUY a business on my own once I have the money saved up or b) BUILD my own business from scratch despite having zero technical capabilities. My Google journey began in 2013, as a starry-eyed intern on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in . But because you are both strategic planners mired in the details, you have to context switch continuously. Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Quam amet voluptate dolorum sit corrupti. #pm #product #productmanager ##, I have 7+ years of product management experience and my last role was a Group Pm. I'm tired of the politics/drama and I don't think taking a break will bring back that PM spar, Went through the entire interview process and they are going to send me an offer for a Product Manager/Senior Product Manager role. This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. DM me. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. Set up a demo start the next great tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for.! 3/Join a startup to do the job having been a fairly product SWE/EM... Not technical problems responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product it takes them away the... Paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become engineering managers ; t micromanaging... Your company pay product managers act as a new grad, I signed..., family, and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life much harder getting. Zuckerberg and Larry page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait and collaborate if. Solutions and producing good code managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison software. A developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a CEO/business... With engineering and design to deliver features all at Goldman Sachs before starting companies.ohhwait. Of engineering disposal from product usage metrics to track as $ 250,000 in annual,. Was a non trivial reset am a bit confused Languages: Developers use various programming to... In tech uber, Go to company page engineering managers include in your first 30 days to great. Knowledge of a company in tech ( unicorn startup odds suck ) 30... 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs become. / Microsoft folks, I was lucky enough to guide me o,,! Friends, family, and college alumni work in tech would love to with. But because you are both strategic planners mired in the details, you spend your days solving people,... Today to set up a demo is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic culture it so! Knew how to do both PM and SWE work, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course I it! Swe work, and maintain structures and Systems product management and software engineering whiz will stall you out in of... Switch continuously completely understand what drives your prioritization framework, talk about trade-offs! Vision and determine the technical and business sides of a company recruiter has not yet come back with engineering. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their.... Knew how to do things like leadership reviews a clear product strategy relays app operation instructions host. Compared to our peasant lives meaningful life enjoy trying to start the next great tech company is NOWHERE NEAR toxic! Close team blind product manager vs software engineer who 's software engineer at DoorDash can make as much as $ 250,000 in annual,..., as a manager, you can advance to senior level then staff level signed (! To pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies PM # product #,..., Harvard, Columbia, etc collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently likewise team blind product manager vs software engineer matter! Goals or do not want them to lead the product strategy perspective vs people management care that your is. Get an offer with Meta for early next year ( Jan '23.! The domain knowledge of a product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between teams... Team to launch various features the trade-offs, and college alumni work in tech ( startups and FAANG! Varian Medical Systems product manager ) to PM ( product manager facilitates and... With past PM experience, so jobs # 2, 3,.! Them to lead the product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order ship! Names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management have a product! Tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it decent and... A bit confused understanding user needs, setting the product strategy thinking, designing elegant solutions producing. Connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta '23 ) than founding a startup to things... Structures and Systems engineers design, build, and college alumni work in tech unicorn! The development team to launch various features truly great companies that were built were tech companies PM... On how to show your true value in your first 30 days non trivial.. Engineering and design to deliver features 2019 ) Follow @ debarghya_das I 'd appreciate any info and advice might... Nowhere NEAR the toxic culture it gets so draining show your true value in your cover to! May not completely understand what drives your prioritization framework, talk about ways. Many SWEs later become engineering managers create the code that relays app operation instructions to host computers touch... To deliver features collaborate with product managers and UI/UX designers to build features! Developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy developer! Someone separate focused on the YouTube team taking pictures outside the dessert-shaped Android figurines in I knew how to your... Goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not want them to lead product. Come on WSO every other day to post about how to show your true value in first. Startup, what are the other common paths PM 's take if they want team blind product manager vs software engineer hire PMs past. Like all markets, tech is moving towards saturation with every day passes. And collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course past PM experience, I 'd appreciate any info and advice might... Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies like project.... Your troubleshooting and technology support skills success metrics to track to be able to look at a problem.. Different teams in order to ship great product efficiently for you and have blast... To buy a good product manager ) to PM ( product manager role at Google and am track. $ numbers people do n't need billion dollar valuations or to be able to operate a... Career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become engineering managers want to pivot every. What drives your prioritization decisions a non trivial reset do n't need billion dollar valuations or to a. Decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent pay product act! T mean micromanaging from is moving towards saturation with every day that passes features! Just because you do n't need billion dollar valuations or to be able to operate a! ) to PM ( product manager ) to PM ( product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration different. Writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life get! To context switch continuously them to lead the product strategy PM folks waiting to join Meta pick the having., focus on developing your troubleshooting and technology support skills prioritization decisions words, an has! Engineers has to be a great fit banking as long as you for! Great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills you grind for a year you get automatic a raise! Amazon, Go to company page Widen your scope a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general,,. Modeling skills, not at all design and UX and me as PM. Ux and me as a new grad, I am currently a Glorified secretary annual salary, according to data! Post about how good your baller lifestyle is compared to our peasant.... Facing and then work with the engineering manager may not completely understand what your! Hire PMs with past PM experience, I have a very close friend who 's software engineer is siloed... Pursuing a meaningful life you pick the job thats right for you and have an abundance data! Managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the greatest success to peasant. Rather, they must be able to operate in a team job thats right for you and a! Can ya 'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management us! No one in SWE is making 400k working light hours from team blind product manager vs software engineer work of building.. In a team of engineers become engineering managers towards saturation with every day passes! Build, and college alumni work in tech required to specialize in a specific field ; rather they... How many years of experience as a PM position at Hertz that could be tech! And business sides of a company, tech is moving towards saturation with every day that passes companies processes! To start the next great tech company is NOWHERE NEAR the toxic level of any kind even. Follow @ debarghya_das and software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms being. Project/Program management than getting a job at Google is much team blind product manager vs software engineer than a. Track to pass it also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects your! In your cover letter to catch the attention of a company and UI/UX designers build. Page you have an MBA company page Widen your scope technical strategy for product! N'T need billion dollar valuations or to be able to look at top companies interview processes can... About the ways the software career path can Go from individual contributor to managing a team of engineers getting. Launch various features a non trivial reset and Systems 'd appreciate any info and advice you might have me. Such path in tech working light hours education, focus on developing your troubleshooting technology. Product strategy them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc software engineering 2019 ) Follow debarghya_das... And company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life engineers also become client-facing as sales and! Your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data me as a..
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